Curse

moriz · Jun 13, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

holy crap.. now this I really didn't think I'd ever see from the PvP side of Guild Wars. Throughout the game's history any time something is changed on the PvE side of the game and players become upset much of the PvP side has chided them for not being able to accept any kind of change..

heh, welcome to unwanted change. I'm guessing a few of the PvP players aren't as welcome to unwanted change as they seemed to be. That's exactly what people called whining when it happened on the PvE side of the house.

a word of advice, adapt and overcome - change is good for you.. maybe they'll surprise you with an update.

my guess is the non-scrubs on the PvP side probably aren't complaining and are probably even adapting to not having the regularly scheduled skill balance. Another guess is that even if the skill balance happens near the end of this month's automated tourney, the good PvPers will still have adapted to the situation as they always have in the past.. just a guess though.

btw, I don't mean this as any kind of attack towards you. You just provided a good quote in relation to the subject at hand for people to take into context.

PvE Side: the expected norm is no change, a change to the content throws some people out of shape

PvP Side: the expected norm is a fairly consistenty scheduled skill shakeup, a change to the schedule throws some people out of shape

guess there's no win for ANet after all...

the last time there was a PvE content update, and when Anet had to delay it, they came out well in advance to tell us that it would be delayed for another week. the general comments being posted were along the lines of "thanks for telling us, but make sure the update will be good." they could've done the same here, even on thursday morning, and the general consensus would've been the same. instead, they say nothing and leave people disappointed.

and seriously, a pve player telling us to "adapt and overcome"? that's just so ironic.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 13, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25

I have just 2 words of advice "reading comprehension". People read something and then proceed to totally miss the the point of what was said just to promote their point of view. We all may be guilty of this from time to time, but it does get excessive in Riverside. I am as guilty as anyone else when I let my temper get the best of me. I now try and read each post twice before I post, hoping to avoid foot in mouth disease (doesn't always work).

Sometimes when I'm angry I have the right to be angry, but that doesn't give me the right to be cruel. Quote from unknown author

-Sonata- · Jun 13, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

I have to say I find that the customer relations team come across as very aggressive.

Yes, we appreciate that delays can happen in a game of this size but surely to come on here and say we are not important is crazy. I am sure to the CR team the posters on this forum come across as impatient brats who know nothing about what's involved in the update process, but that is not the point.

We are your customers and you are supposed to "relate" to us. If Anet mess up, as they have, come here, apologise and explain, do not insult us.

Prior to the April 9th content update, Regina came to these boards and informed us before the build went live that we would not be receiving a skill balance as part of that build. Going back and reading that thread once again, it's clear that even when we are given prior warning, many still lash out in disgust. Let's be honest. It doesn't matter that we weren't informed. A thread could have been made here 10 days ago that the balance update would be delayed and chances are that thread would be 20 pages just like this one.

This is why Community Relations is and always will be, "Damned If They Do & Damned If They Don't". It's another example, in the long line of examples, that no matter what decision is made by the staff, it's never good enough for part of the demographic.

As for insults; I saw none. All I saw was a man who told it how it was. Around here we like to pride ourselves (or so it seems) on wanting blunt truth. That to be a part of "Riverside" one needs to have the so-called thick skin. That being said; If we can dish it out, we better learn to sit here and take it too. Martin spoke the blunt truth in certain areas and it stung some. I, for one, am glad he did so. Was it aggressive? Absolutely. It should have been. In fact I'd argue it neededto be aggressive. But was it insulting? Not at all.

Deviant Angel · Jun 13, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

I have been telling people that I didn't want to work on my sin because I have really bad luck and Anet would probably nerf something as soon as I got set up to do some of the more popular farms and SCs.

So a couple of weeks ago I got bored and decded to drag my sin to EotN and get all the skills and titles I needed for everything. I had farmed the hell out of the raptors with my ele in the past, so I needed a new location to try out... vaettirs! Did it for about a day before I decided to give it a rest until the next event. I felt pretty confident that the vaettirs were going to decrease the ammount of time I needed to spend in Scamadan spamming to buy booze! Oops...

Ohhhh well... do I dare start doing UWSC with the sin?

matthew5276 · Jun 13, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

It's not about adapting and overcoming skill changes and when they arrive. It's about the fact we were told (I do not have a source for this, apologies if I am mistaken) That we would get a skill update every month on the second Thursday on the month. For a large amount of the gvg community, most gvg is centered around playing the mAT, and practising for the mAT. For that reason, a skill update 2 weeks before the mAT is generally good; it allows a good amount of practise and theorycrafting as to be sufficiently prepared for the mAT. The problem, from the mAT players perspective, of having skill updates, which are designed to be meta changing, being delayed by a week, for example, is that the entire gvg community has very little time to prepare for the mAT. Theory crafting, or copying other peoples theory crafts (In many cases), takes a lot longer than a week to do effectively. If you think that we should just 'adapt' to these changes, then you've clearly never participated in any high level pvp.

A weeks delay to the skill balance is not too bad, so long as there is some prior warning. A month's delay just results in ridiculous mATs.

If the skill update is next week, which I am beginning to doubt, I hope it will actually contain a month and a weeks worth of work, and change skills that are actually broken. I don't think that monthly skill updates are too much to expect, and I don't think that being told if there is a delay beforehand is too much to expect either.

And, seriously, despite the pve community being rather divided on game updates and what should happen, the pvp community is pretty much in consensus what should be nerfed, and are vocal enough that anet should have picked up on it. In terms of pvp skill balance, its not a case of a divided community, but a case of anet not listening to what is being asked.

lord of all tyria · Jun 13, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant Angel

I have been telling people that I didn't want to work on my sin because I have really bad luck and Anet would probably nerf something as soon as I got set up to do some of the more popular farms and SCs.

So a couple of weeks ago I got bored and decded to drag my sin to EotN and get all the skills and titles I needed for everything. I had farmed the hell out of the raptors with my ele in the past, so I needed a new location to try out... vaettirs! Did it for about a day before I decided to give it a rest until the next event. I felt pretty confident that the vaettirs were going to decrease the ammount of time I needed to spend in Scamadan spamming to buy booze! Oops...

Ohhhh well... do I dare start doing UWSC with the sin?

Do it. If this works, you will have lost some time and effort, and helped to improve the game. Continue to do this with everything broken, ok?

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 13, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Well, from their perspective, we have already purchased the game, the game is free to play. They dont have to placate us anymore as GW is being run by a skeleton crew till GW2 comes out (*cough*vaporware*cough*), so their attitude is perfectly understandable, if not preferable.

What they have to understand is that many of us are disinclined to buy GW2 if we're going to have to suffer through this a second time around. For example, suppose I decide to play GW2's ritualist equivalent. What would I expect? Lots of bad things. Nerfs. Neglect. Add that to general problems, such as online store and EotN-style bad expansion, and maybe GW2's not worth the money to buy.

]HM[ Sabre Wolf · Jun 13, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew5276

It's about the fact we were told (I do not have a source for this, apologies if I am mistaken) That we would get a skill update every month on the second Thursday on the month.

Right... the "points" and bug update was this week the "First" Thursday... so the Skills Update, if there is one, will be next week the "Second" Thursday.

This month is an off month because the mAT Finals was so close to the next month... its just like election day for the US... "Election day will be the first Tuesday of the Month of November, UNLESS THAT FIRST DAY OF THE MONTH IS THAT TUESDAY; IN WHICH THE ELECTION WILL MOVE TO THE FOLLOWING TUESDAY. One can assume that this analogy can be applied to this month's update sechedual...

angelsarc · Jun 13, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

What they have to understand is that many of us are disinclined to buy GW2 if we're going to have to suffer through this a second time around. For example, suppose I decide to play GW2's ritualist equivalent. What would I expect? Lots of bad things. Nerfs. Neglect. Add that to general problems, such as online store and EotN-style bad expansion, and maybe GW2's not worth the money to buy.

I'm not really sure why you would expect anything at all, given the general lack of information. The game isn't even going to be a direct sequel, and even if it were, that has absolutely no implications for gameplay.

matthew5276 · Jun 13, 2009, 05:14 PM // 17:14

SabreWolf, I'm not entirely sure you understand the definition of 'First'. This update was on the 11th of June; The second Thursday of the month. The first Thursday was on the 4th June. I'm not entirely sure what your point is, and I don't live in the US, so I'm not sure I understand your analogy fully.

]HM[ Sabre Wolf · Jun 13, 2009, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Usually, updates fall on the second Thursday after the weekend of the mATs... which means that the "first" thursday of the update series would have been this past Thursday (which it is was), and the "second" Thursday of updates will fall on this comming Thursday. So given that, ANET is on sechedual actually, with the exception of the XTH points which has been delayed to this comming build on Thursday.

matthew5276 · Jun 13, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Sorry, but I don't understand in what way the 11th on June can possibly be interpreted as the first Thursday. The 4th of June was the first Thursday after the weekend of mATS's.

]HM[ Sabre Wolf · Jun 13, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

source

"The monthly maintenance updates is scheduled regulary on the 1st or 2nd Thursday of each month"

And sometimes, a skill update will be on the following Thursday after this update... like it was last month...

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 13, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

I'm not really sure why you would expect anything at all, given the general lack of information. The game isn't even going to be a direct sequel, and even if it were, that has absolutely no implications for gameplay.

Actually, there is a vast amount of information. Information about the developers. How they react to community input. How they've fixed clearly broken classes (that's sarcasm by the way). How they've been oh so very fast in getting Spawning Power fixed (more sarcasm).

If this is what we can expect, I'm not impressed.

HawkofStorms · Jun 13, 2009, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

What they have to understand is that many of us are disinclined to buy GW2 if we're going to have to suffer through this a second time around. For example, suppose I decide to play GW2's ritualist equivalent. What would I expect? Lots of bad things. Nerfs. Neglect. Add that to general problems, such as online store and EotN-style bad expansion, and maybe GW2's not worth the money to buy.

If you are "suffering" you really shouldn't be playing.
Repeat after me, "It's a game." Play what you like. Vote with your wallet. But empty threats of boycott's of a future product aren't going to help. If GW2 is awesome, it will sell. If it sucks, it won't. Simple.
Don't try to speak for everybody else on what consumers will do. GW is not Auto Assault. There actually are fans who will buy the sequel.

DreamWind · Jun 13, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

If you are "suffering" you really shouldn't be playing.
Repeat after me, "It's a game." Play what you like. Vote with your wallet.

Problem being if anybody quits Anet feels nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

If GW2 is awesome, it will sell. If it sucks, it won't. Simple.

Sure...but that has nothing to do with the fact that Anet has awful communication and has lied to us many times.

Gun Pierson · Jun 13, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Hawk, I've been thinking about the 'It's just a game' philosophy and even though it may be more healthy for the mind, it leaves me with an impression of indifference. So is it just a game for Anet too? They don't allow E-bay gold, to give only one silly example. Why not? It's only just a game right? No, it's not just a game. Not for the makers, nor for plenty of fans on the other side of the line.

For me personally, it was 'The' game last 4 years. I won't speak for someone else, but this game was not like the others out there. It goes even further than that. Just like Martin, I started with Pong in another century. The gaming scene became an industry and standards went up year after year. Anet set a new standard in the 'mmo' segment with their free to play game called GW. They even spoiled us with free stuff like 'Sorrow's Furnace' and almost weekly updates the first year after release. That's a big difference with the current situation so I'm not surprised some players are feeling left out.

You can react by saying it's just a game, but personally I feel a bit sad it had to come to this. We miss Anet's magic.

CyberNigma · Jun 13, 2009, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the last time there was a PvE content update, and when Anet had to delay it, they came out well in advance to tell us that it would be delayed for another week. the general comments being posted were along the lines of "thanks for telling us, but make sure the update will be good." they could've done the same here, even on thursday morning, and the general consensus would've been the same. instead, they say nothing and leave people disappointed.

and seriously, a pve player telling us to "adapt and overcome"? that's just so ironic.

actualy I'm a PvPer, just not in Guild Wars :-) even used to pvp in real life - which is where we used to use the "adapt and overcome" saying a lot..

the skill update will get here... eventually..

still ironic though... whole thing is pretty funny too..

Lishy · Jun 13, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

I love Gun Pierson's post.
It's true. Most of us here are really spoiled.
Anet is a company that works magic.

Just compare GW to any other MMO on the market. Such as WoW, City of Heroes, Oblivion, Gaia Online, and, of course, the crapfest that is known as Graalonline.

Guild Wars revolutionized MMO standards with its instances, no need for monthly fees, and constant updates for nearly 4 years.
It use to be an AWESOME competetive game with great metas too!

However, there comes a time when something must die off. Everything does. Right now guild wars has past its climax and with this new standard that had been set, Anet wants to expand work on another game: Guild Wars 2, the successor.
However, with that leaving, they were kind enough to still leave us with updates every once in awhile, albiet, not constant updates, still updates after all guild wars has been through. Quite bulky today, I must add?

QQing needs to stop and we should more-so appreciate how far guild wars has come. This is the only game I've ever seen to set such standards in MMOs and it is the reason I'm here on my laptop over playing COD4 or Counter Strike.

To make a game so huge that people still don't complete after 4 years is truly a masterpiece in my opinion. Truly, it's a masterpiece. And even without all these free updates, I'm very happy for what it is.
And to those saying updates that require payment sucks, it may be for people like you or me, but the revenue that anet will get will allow them to have the budget to put a lot more life into the game even after 4 years of soooooo much work.

Still Number One · Jun 13, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Repeat after me, "It's a game."

Honestly this brings up some interesting theories. Guild Wars is a game like Football or Basketball are games. They are competitive events where you work at improving your set of skills and competing with other people who use a similar set of skills. When playing Football in the back yard with neighbors, its just a game. When playing basketball in the local park, its just a game. But ask yourself, at what point does it stop being a game, and turn into an intricate part of your life? Does it ever become something more?

To the professional football player, it is not just a game, but a means of making a living. It is how he provides for his family, and it is what his entire life revolves around. He trains countless hours throughout the year just that he may perform well in this "Game".

Obviously Guild Wars isn't as lucrative in the money department so you can't actually provide for your family, but here is an interesting question. After you devote a certain amount of time to this "game" for whatever reason, is it still just a game?

A game is defined as an amusement or a pastime. But if you spend the majority of your day playing this game, is it really just a pastime, or is it an important part of your life? Games can be just as addicting as drugs or alcohol substance. A lot of kids today spend their whole day thinking about the "game" they love to play. When they are at school they are thinking, "I can't wait to go home and log on to xbox live to play Halo", or "I can't wait to level up my level 65 Druid".

As sad as it may be, this "game" as you call it, is one of the most important things in some peoples lives. This "game" gives them a sense of belonging and euphoria that they can't find anywhere else in their life.

So I ask you this, if you spend 1 hour a day just casually wasting time, Is it a game? If you spend multiple hours a day studying videos of matches played by other players learning the ins and outs of competition and improving on your skills so that you may place well in that big monthly tournament, Is it still a game?

Does it ever stop becoming just a game to some people?

TL : DR - A completely off topic ramble about nothing important.